Umineko no Naku Koro ni 11 - What the fuck did I just watch?
When I put on the latest episode of Umineko no Naku Koro ni I have to say I was firmly in my comfort zone - I thought I knew what to expect. Some melodrama here, a bit of UUUU UUU there, a dose of Beatrice laughing cruelly, and another series of violent murder culminating in an “EVERYBODY DIES” finish. The first half of the episode reinforced this, with the deaths of George and maid-cum-lover (sounds like a hentai title), Shanon. I admit I actually enjoyed this particular scene. Like much of the show it was done in a bit of a whacky and awkward manner, but I still have an emotional investment in the innocent love story between these two, and I liked the fact that their love kind of got the better of Beatrice, undermining her façade of unassailable wickedness. I’m not sure if I enjoyed what the episode eventually turned into, but I have to say it was one of the most, if not the most, fucked up and disturbing things I’ve seen in an anime.
Higurashi had gore-a-plenty, there’s no doubting that. And a lot of people reacted squeamishly to some of the gorier moments that the mystery-horror series offered up. Whether it was Rena putting needles in K1’s rice balls, the finger-nail tearing traditions of the Sonozaki family, or a frenzied Rika stabbing herself repeatedly in the side of the head, there was something for everyone to feel queasy about. But what transpires here is on a whole new level. While not as technically gory as those Higurashi moments, the twisted psychology behind it makes it far more unnerving.
Seeing the wholly dejected and crushed Battler paraded around naked by collar and leash was actually a bit sickening as well as depressing. Even if Battler came back 5 minutes later with a fresh resolve to resist Beatrice, that does nothing to repair the damage his image has suffered at the hands of his witch foe. I’ve lost all respect for him ;_;. Keiichi wouldn’t have stood for this shit! Now his only path to redemption in my eyes is to get Beatrice on a leash and collar. Now that I would like to see, especially because I now realise just how warped and sadistic Beatrice is - she deserves a hundred hells of pain and humiliation!
Because what she did to Battler was possibly topped by the sheer foulness of how she tormented Rosa. I have to admit, if this arc has achieved anything it’s an increased fondness for Rosa. She took the role of the shotgun toting survivor from Natsuhi and made the role her own, defeating Battler with her clear-headedness and emotional fortitude. The scene where she goes out fighting by Maria’s side was probably the most touching moment of the show thus far, redeeming her prior loli-abuse misdemeanours. Maria’s elation in this scene was so beautiful! So, with my newfound Rosa appreciation I was petty upset by Beatrice forcing her to eat delicacies of which her dead family members were the prime ingredient. There is no way to put that dinner-table scene into words except “totally screwed up”. And when Maria’s severed head made an appearance and started talking, it gave everything this unnerving surrealness. It was like watching a greek tragedy on psychedelic drugs.
I usually enjoy creepyness and gore, but this episode actually got to me a bit. As a result, I’m not sure if I enjoyed it or not. One thing’s for sure - I won’t be forgetting this anime any time soon! Fortunately this episode did have some very strong character moments (between Shanon and George and Rosa and her daughter) to make up for the debasement Beatrice inflicted on Battler and Rosa. Also, the final tea room scene gave a few hints at a sensible structure behind the loop arcs, as well as some clues to Beatrice’s motivations and a higher level story at work. Such hints are just the kind of thing I’m looking for, and I hope next arc can add to these.
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。。 Genji is still the best character in the show. His stoic, manly presence is much appreciated.
。。 I’m not a fan of Beatrice’s gothic-schoolgirl-cosplay outfit. It might be just me but it’s hard to take her seriously when she’s wearing that getup. It just makes her look kind of desperate and a bit slutty. She’s just too old to make it work!
。。 I like the new witch introduced at the end of the episode! She has more personality than Bernkastel and less of an insane streak than Beatrice. She’s cute when she pouts!
they sped through materiel so fast in the latter part of the episode, but at least they kept dread the grave, cow tit sandwitch and promise to let me eat you in 10 years
Once again it’s interesting to see your PoV on this episode.
Its also interesting to see the reactions as a whole. This time the anime found some kind of “entertainment” while the VN fans found it very lacking because from the novel perspective it was ultra fast paced (covering to much material) and their most beloved scenes lost most of its impact. Its really bewildering why they made the episode before so sloooow just to speed though the grand final this way.
Because you seemed irritated by the end of the “game board” story let me explain what they meant to tell you with this:
Beatrice play her “difficult game” (told you before) with Battler because she invoked this moral dilemma to either suspect this family or admit Beatrice exists. Thats what made him surrender (and cry tears in Marias arms etc) and thats how she broke him. So when Rosa, who was distrusting everyone around and got totally paranoid in the end, even had a argument with him about how they may be the wolfs he finally stopped thinking (to use his words). He didn’t want to picture this aunts and uncles committing the murder in this heartless way Rosa talked about it, so he just sat their waiting for Beatrice drinking (and the VN suggested he was much more drunk, giving Genji some funny lines. Also a good explanation why the end got so shrewed up ^^).
So when he just wanted to see Beatrice for real to end his torment Genji arrives to bring him to her and she says she will explain everything to him but on the one condition that he becomes her furniture.
Thats where the scene end with a HELL of a anticlimax because the game just tells you something like: “So she explained everything to him and it all made sense but there is no reason to tell this story any more because when the king is defeated the game ends.”
After this they even missed out some opportunity for some “sick” fan service. Beatrice whats to change in her dress for her party and don’t even mind Battler still being in this room because he is just like a table or closet to her now… so no need to feel ashamed. She even instructs him to buttom up her dress threatening him if he shrews up she may take his eyes out (literally)… every button having more value then him etc…. Now you know where all this S&M shipping fanarts for those two is coming from :P
Afterwards on the party he is just described as a thing. No name, at first you might not even realize the text is talking about Battler. All the stuff about the chains you so humiliate (or dehumanize if you like this better) him to the max…
“I’ve lost all respect for him ;_;. Keiichi wouldn’t have stood for this shit!”
Thats where I get to the point of you confusing things. All the stuff happening before were from the perspective of the real Battler. The Battler in the tea party was Meta-Battler. Thats like “losing one battle don’t decide a war”. After the horrifying stuff Beato put in with the tea party to conclude the story he was assumingly filled with so much rage that he showed up to challenge her to another game. The VN even describes that besides his cow tits line he punch Beato so hard her head hit the table. But its ok they left this out…. that don’t seem to fit his image so well (he is no man of violence after all)
Well ok and then Rosa…. thats where everyone was disappointed. After the anticlimax of the Beato/Battler meeting in Kinzos room you got her one-woman-survival-show as a compensation. This scene was so toned down it hurts IMO. This one scenes was the reason he got this meme about “invincible Rosa” because she fought so fierce for her daughter. So what was different?
1) The goats were described like real people bleeding and dying when she attacked them…. no puff into butterflies. So you really got the idea she was mowing down people in her killing spree (and there were many more she took with her in the VN)
2) The were constantly on the run… that was more like some action final in some zombie horror movie. When the barrel of the shotgun was empty she started literally kicking (and punching) goats asses and even stabbed one of them in the face with her fountain pen (killing him!!! after driving it through the eye with another punch)
3) “When the seagulls cry there were no survivors” as the last line of the main game… Even if she tried to reach the shore/ship/whatever with all her might she misstepped on the way and couldn’t walk on so they get surrounded by the army and butterflies and only THEN her touching dialog with Maria starts (but on the whole way before she was worrying about Maria all the time having a guilty conscience)
4) The music… the remix in the anime was ok (also play when the George/Shannon scenes started) but as always really short and the many fans still say this track is one of the coolest in the games (and with over 100 tracks in the first 4 games thats a accomplishment … acually there are very few original tracks because the game OST was so good that they remixed or reused many of the games tracks)
Also because there were once again game end credits etc. you don’t really get the cut to the meta-world so fast. The games indicates Rosa has died and is now in the same place as Battler after EP1 when she is served her delicious meals.
So if you would like to see the scene like it was meant to show…. YouTube is your friend as always: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKklfwFwymQ :P
About the WTF freaky stuff… it was in a way as sickening as in the anime but on the other side it was different. Battler always described the murders etc from 1st person PoV so stuff like finding the dead parents in the chapel (really slowly turning the scnes from peaceful to horrifying) or the 1st twilight in the 1st game with all his detailed comments and thoughts were perhaps more disturbing gorn then Rosas torture / her party or you just got used to this by then. ^^ Perhaps its also the change of the medium … words sometimes don’t cut it :P
Also there was no Takoluka-style Maria in the VN. She was only compared to an apple and… well… the minimalistic nature of the games also had no images for this besides Marias standard happy faces and the text. I was surprised they kept Battlers if-you-know-what-I-mean-joke because all this stuff was cut out before for obvious reason. ^^
But the end is the same… the got the point cross and Beato went from “well thats some ill-natured girl” to “WOAH THAT BITCH MUST DIE” :P Still many fan consider Beato quite a moe character and perhaps there will be some surprises in the games later on …. :)
Your comparison to Greek tragedy also struck when I read that part. All this turtures of Beato really reminded my of the stuff about the Tartarus. They all seem to deal with sins (remember the 7 “Stakes of Purgatory” attributed to the 7 deadly sins) and all have some of this endless magic of Beatrice to them. (they skipped the details how she got a glass full of Krauss blood by killing and reviving him endless so that Rosa may REALLY “savor” her revenge against him). Also there was this one Greek gods story where the gods were devised and served humans I had to think of.
The last big cut what the 2nd tea party. You said the new witch seemed promising but ironically they could out all the stuff which gave her a personality in this part. ^^ Well beating Bern personality-wise really is no big deal (as far as you know :P ) so your right.
I only try a small summary for the more interesting parts:
- Bernkastel once again turned to “the camera” in the end trying you cheer up the addressed one and reminisce how she would have reacted long ago: “Fighto~ Nipaaah~” (still I don’t think she has anything to do with Rika)
- When all 3 witches are present Lambda starts a discussion about how their 3-way-stand-of resembles rock-paper-scissor just to announce she would win anyway: http://tinyurl.com/mtx9bg
Considering there was Touhou cosplay in this arc before it seems likely he tried some shout out to the beloved (9) idiot here with (”I’m the Strongest” besides having lost against Bern before etc.) and playing a tsundere when giving the “reader” tips. :P
- Also there is more to her name… Lambda Delta…. you can read this like 34 looking at these letters… thats why fan often shorten her zu 34-tan ^^ But that number should be familiar to you by now so I now you may understand what previous games she with her she was talking about. :P (in the VN Lambda was much more talkative about this)
Or you just combine all this stuff in one picture: http://tinyurl.com/np6gls ;)
I think thats enough of a hint how much background story is awaiting you in the mata world later on.
So after all this may be a “good” episode as a anime stand-alone but if know the VN there was now way not to be majorly disappointed.
PS: Almost got a freak out when my PC decides to freeze after writing all this stuff. Luckily Firefox seem to have some really awesome text caching because not a single line was lost after the restart O_o
Thanks again for the highly informative post!
Your comments always make me feel I’m being done wrong by DEEN even though I haven’t even played the VN, lol. It sounds like there is a lot of cool stuff that the anime as missing, which would make it both easier to understand and a lot more enjoyable in general. It makes me wonder what I missed out on with Higurashi, or was that a better adaptation? The goatman slaughter/chase with Rosa sounds a lot more exciting as you describe it. If DEEN had done that properly it would have been really awesome. The scene was decent as it is, bigger action scenes couldn’t hurt, and I’d have loved to have seen Rosa putting up even more of a fight (even if she did alright in the anime anyway). Really, this makes me think the anime adaptation is going to be too short for the amount of content there is to cover. What’s the point in trying to adapt such an ambitious and broad story if half the entertainment value and plot details are going to be cut out. Shame!
Haha, I really liked Lambda from the brief bit of dialogue she got, but thanks for describing how that scene originally played out. I like her even more now, because she seems really playful and fun. 34-tan moee~ XD What a great nickname lol! Also, her character and costume design are really cute. But I can’t believe anyone could find Beatrice (I refuse to call her by a cute name!) moe. I guess the old adage ‘whatever floats your boat’ applies, but I personally find her quite repulsive!
>>“Fighto~ Nipaaah~” (still I don’t think she has anything to do with Rika)
It sure sounds like it does! I miss Rika :\
Because I’m SUPER PAPER!
Awesome - I’m going to use that next time I get into a rock, paper, scissors battle XD
Actually speaking of those 3, this newtype scan should appeal:
http://moe.imouto.org/post/show/95467/beatrice-frederica_bernkastel-kikuchi_youko-lambda
I never realised bernkastel had a tail until today. How cute!
“It makes me wonder what I missed out on with Higurashi, or was that a better adaptation?”
Never read the novel but I read many comment how the Higuashi was cut even more and more brutally. By the end of the 4th arc the gamers might have been able to solve the whole story (with A LOT mind bending) but at this point the anime still didn’t make any sense at all (after all the 1st season are already the first 6 games and were still highly confusing). The 1st arc of the 2nd season was especially requests by Ryu07 because so many clues and important plot points were lot in adaption (there is no game about it… its an original anime story). So you could say the even improved by taking him as an adviser for the Umineko anime this time…
But its just like this episode: If you don’t know what you missed, you wouldn’t see how it was a “flawed” presentation.
Perhaps in a far future the fan-translation groups finish the Higurashi game and I’ll be able to read the whole story but after all IMO its not the same if you already know all the answers. There are only all the clever clues jumping right in your face to discover which may be amusing.
“What’s the point in trying to adapt such an ambitious and broad story if half the entertainment value and plot details are going to be cut out.”
If you find this answer tell the many fans who also have this question on there mind. :P
I think its all about the money / possibilities of the studio. Guess it was 26 episode or it won’t be made. But you also have to see that animes are a much more restrictive format. There is no need for a artificial cliffhanger every 20 minute in the games and their length is only restricted by stuff like Installer-DVD size (just joking… the bundle of the first 4 games are only around 2GB and more then half of this is the soundtrack / opening movies… the rest will mostly be the character sprites ^^)
On the other side the game had to be condensed. Some people even called the first episodes of the anime boring even if the were absolutely rushed compared to the novels ( 1st ep. ~ 2h of reading, 2nd was similar… after this the anime slowed down as well). There is also this whole stuff about hooking the viewers with the first few episodes, so they may have even put in “wasted” stuff just to appeal to some audience while the games worked differently (like the echii stuff in ep1 etc.)
I think I already mentioned this: The 4th game is longer in text size then the 1st and 2nd combined (if I remember right) while we have 5 eps for the 1st arc and (I guess) ~ 8 for the 4th… so they will cut much in 3rd or 4th arc (but its ok for the 4th… there were some long-winded flashbacks in it which can easily be shortened). Just hope they don’t cut the awesome stuff to much…
“I like her even more now, because she seems really playful and fun.”
Be careful … she may behave like an stupid kid but she is still a witch :P When the games give you one idea than its that witches are never easily dealt with and quite uncomprehensible in their behavior. ^^ You could call those 2nd tea parties in the games another meta-level. They think about this Battler/Beatrice battler like a game they try to meddle with, like Battler / Beatrice treat the island story as there game. There is much more to this rock-paper-scissor stuff and the conclusions later on because this meta-story becomes an increasingly important part of the whole Umineko story.
But your right in that she can be quite fun. Bern tried to tease her later on by spoiling the end of Higurashi novels to her as some kind of revenge for some silly stuff she did. 34-tan is like “NOOOOO, don’t do it. I’m still not remotely finished reading.”… quite the irony if you consider who this characters are inspired by. XD
“But I can’t believe anyone could find Beatrice (I refuse to call her by a cute name!) moe”
Well wait and see… perhaps you will also see what they saw in the end. ;P But like always this is also directly connected to all the fanart stuff floating around. There is much cute stuff (besides all the twisted horror or S&M motifs) about her everywhere on many sites (e.g. http://tinyurl.com/l6swt3 / http://tinyurl.com/m9v8ju) and so much Battler x Beatrice shipping spawned after the end of the 2nd arc. (But thats the same as all the Death Note shipping for the protagonists … people thinking playing mind games chessmaster-style has some kind of intimacy to it ^^)
Well the real answer is many of the Umineko characters are really complex and I already told you before that Beato is one of the most interesting IMO because she as so many sides to her…. sometimes very human, sometimes very demonic… she may even be the victim of cruelty at some point, making you pity her. (Yes…. really… after all you still know almost nothing about her til now ^^)
“I never realised bernkastel had a tail until today. How cute!”
A also never realized before the 4th game. There is a short meta-scene where a small cat shows up just you transform into Bern in the end. Seems like witches are also shape-shifters :P (Well Beatos butterfly form could also count as something similar ^^)
Perhaps thats why Rika always talked about kitties in her metaphors ;P
This reminds me the preview for episode 12 is out now… silly as ever but may be interesting to see… New characters inc :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtssfebAgt8
If you liked Genjis style as a buttler you will also like Ronove (the gentlemen at the end with the monocle)…. he’s an amusing guy and know how to make delicious tea and cookies XD
That’s true about anime being a more restrictive format than visual novels. I guess one of the biggst problems here is the episode length. The palty amount of time given to TV anime, of 23 mins must make it extremely hard to tell a story with a beginning and a conclusion, especially when there’s usually three minutes of OP/ED! So if they’re trying to adapt large amounts of content and still staple it between the typical episode structure, it must be very difficult.
Funny you mentioned that the first arc of Kai was put in because Ryukishi07 requested it, because that was one of my favourite arcs and the perfect opener to the season - all of a sudden you got the sense that things could make sense.
You say they’re going to put it into 26 episodes!? You mean not even with a second season like Higurashi? That seems pretty crazy, as this is a hell of a lot more complex than Higurashi.
That was certainly the case for Higurashi, but in the case of Umineko is feels very flawed to me because even if you don’t know what they cut out, you get the sense that they’ve cut out a hell of a lot and things would make more sense and be more entertaining if they hadn’t. Anyone gets the sense that it’s rushed, I think. I just hope this coming arc will deliver.
Well ok seem like I said something misleading about the episode count.
Higurashi were 8 games and the first 4 game were the “question arc” while Higurashi Kai was a completely new compilation of 4 games called the “answer arcs”. Each answer arc loosely corresponded to one question arc in some way (Shions story as are retold version of Mions story from another PoV but also Renas story with had some similar elements to the very first arc about K1 even if it was a totally diffrent world)
The anime was split differently. The put 4+2 arcs in the first season and the last 2 + the bonus arc and one stand-alone episode (the first episode many years later with adult Rena etc.) into the second.
Umineko is supposed to have a similar structure. There are 5 games released til now but the 5th is once again a new beginning starting a new compilation called Umineko Chiru [translated as "dispel" or "release")]. Most people think the game will also be 7 or 8 episodes long.
So if you consider they only had 4 games as a “complete” story when the production started its reasonable to conclude that they will put those 4 arcs in 26 animes episodes and continue the series when Chiru is finshed which may take a year or two (was the same with Higurashi…)
Its even an improvement over Higurashi because 6 arcs in 26 episodes was even more compressed.
“…all of a sudden you got the sense that things could make sense.”
Thats why they put it in to begin with. Their is this concept to the When They Cry called “TIPS sections”. In Umineko its just that stuff I linked you about the ending of the 1st arc…. some summaries about the deaths and minor background infos about some stuff (e.g. in the 1st arc their are some infos that Kinzo was a fan of western rifles and some stuff about what kind of sawed-off shotgun Natsuhi was carrying). But Higurashi went much further in this aspect. At some points in the game many background informations like documents, police investigation reports or silly side stories etc. were “unlocked” and could be read the same way as the normal story. At first that was only some silly stuff like stories about the kids favorite store etc. but in later games this parts were the place where you really could try to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Those TIPS were the reason I stumbled upon they huge resource of in information for When They Cry which is the Animesuki forum. They have a complete list of all this TIPS for all the Higurashi games there. Only read few parts myself out of curiousity but I guess most of this was cut for the anime and that why the games were solvable by the 4th arc and the anime was not (to remind you: the 4th arc was the flashback story about Rikas meeting Akasaka, that young police guy, years before the murders… the later storys about Shion and Rena already were considered “answers” but even the didn’t help in the anime ^^)
But enough of this information flood … What I forgot to mention before about this episode was that the fans of the games thought about Rosas last stand as so badass awesome the even made a little flash game out of this scene often referred to by the name of the track playing in the game called “Worldend Dominator” (quite fitting name for the scnes IMO ^^)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiJg6Dun85s
(To avoid confusions: there were no stakes present in this scene in the game… that was invented for the game but its some funny level element after all :P )
Also there is another movie on YouTube with deals with this scene which may be the real reason I was so disappointed with the anime adaption because it show how this could have been such a moving scene and how some creative fans sometimes do so much better then the anime studios with their limitity possibilities:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2YpaO1eC6k
(Also: It this just me or did DEEN copy&paste the perspective of the goat attacking Maria into the anime? This movie is rather old by now after all.)
Umineko really had a big and creative community to it even before the anime adaption was announce and there were some really awesome tries to “animate” the highlights of the games many month before the anime started, so those fans really set the bar DEEN has to be messured by.
Perhaps I will link you to the other jaw-dropping stuff when they are no spoilers anymore ;P
(Right now the one other no-spoiler stuff I can think of are the Motion Graphics MADs for each arc which were also created for Higurashi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUQXisiyP-U... perhaps a matter of taste if you like those still picture style but they are usually the first “animated” version of the key scenes of every VN on the net ^^)
God, read the VN and stop relying on the beyond miserable anime adaptation already..
Just skips way to many details and butchers everything in the series..
Episodes feel like the “abridged” videos of “abriged videos” themselves….