Funimation Fights Back
From ANN:
Funimation Enforces Intellectual Property Rights (2005-12-07 17:42:17)
Funimation recently informed fansub group Shinsen-Subs, “We own or control various exclusive copyrights and trademarks related to the animated motion pictures, including but not limited to, the series known as “Speed Grapher,” “Trinity Blood,” “FullMetal Alchemist,” “Dragon Ball,” “Solty Rei” a.k.a. “Origin,” “Detective Conan” a.k.a. “Case Closed,” and “Tsubasa”.” This was after Funimation had contacted the registrar for Shinsen-subs domain name, resulting in the registrar, Joker.com, freezing the domain name. Solty Rei and Tsubasa have not yet been announced for release by Funimation.
I’m sure you’ll have all heard of this before now, so, although not on the breaking edge of anime news, I at least have something to say about the topic. I have been expecting something like this to come along, particularly from Funimation- who has never been a fan of fansubs, and while it does not mark the end of fansubs or anything that dramatic, it is, at its worst a sign that companies attitudes towards fansubbers has changed (coinciding but the recent international push for copyright protection, see Sony DRM, and the appaling laws trying to be pushed through in France). Does this mean eventually other companies will follow suit and start to think of fansubbers as a burden to their profit, or is Funimation just caught up in its own crusade?
Well I can’t say I’m vehemently opposed to their actions, as, of course, it was perfectly within their right to claim the rights to their licensed series. And, frankly, Shinsen-subs is quite often associated with the darker side of fansubs. They’re not as bluntly wrong as DVD rippers, but they commonly sub shows with complete disregard for licenses, and their attitude seems to be about providing free anime, as opposed to promoting the anime, and the industry through early distribution of the series.
However, whether or not it is their right I sincerely hope Funimation doesn’t make a habit out of this and essentially put a stop to the distribution of licensed series. I am not in the slightest against fansubbing licensed series. I can safely agree with it for several good reasons:
1. Quality: most fansubs are not a decent substitute for the quality provided of a DVD, in terms of translation, and audio/video. I don’t believe that fansubbers wish for their releases to be an alternative to DVD’s, and Funimation should not see them like that.
2. Time: Generally a series will take around 10 months to see a DVD release after it is licensed, which, for fans who a truely dedicated to anime, who are often people who download fansubs, or perhaps even fansub themselves, is not an acceptable speed. When fans who are connected to the online community hear the buzz about a new series in Japan they’re not going to want to wait a year to see it, and they shouldn’t have to.
3. Dedication: I believe that this is quite strongly related to my 2nd point, in the way that when people can watch anime as it airs in Japan, at its intended pace, it breeds a kind of following for the series that would otherwise not exist. How many people would honestly be as interested as sharing thoughts on anime, when it comes out DVD at a time, and maybe a year after the show was created. DVD releases are behind the anime industry, and many fans want to be up to date. Being able to be up to date breeds an online enthusiasm that can make the difference between a casual fan and a dedicated one.
4. Promotion: I, and many others follow a try-before-buy philosophy, and fansubs allow such people to be able to have an idea of what they’re buying when they commit to owning a series on DVD. Fansubs, and the online community that exists almost soley because of them, can expose dedicated fans to a large amount of hype and opinions on a show before it is released, which makes people aware of what’s being released, and lets them buy according to their tastes.
The fansub scene is two sided right now. There are people who are active in the online community, but can genuinely consider fansubs as an alternative to DVDs. Then there are those who are active in the online community, who consider fansubs as a step toward purchase of a show legitimately. It is the former of these two personas that is the enemy of the anime industry, but I think, at least for now, the benifits of maintaining the following of the latter persona makes up for this. Every person I’ve met online who follows fansubs, ALSO purchases a considerable amount of anime DVDs, certainly far more than they would if fansubs did not exist. I know people who only got into anime due to fansubs, and who now spend considerable amounts on DVDs. Perhaps the most true thing I can put across is my own stance on the value of fansubs: without them I would spend far less on anime DVDs, and I would be much less supportive of the industry, because, without the online community that has evolved thanks to the closeness to Japan’s schedule, I would be a much less interested, even addicted, fan.
If Funimation makes an enemy out of fansubbers, fansubbers will make an enemy out of Funimation. I suggest to all companies that they embrace this online phenomenon, with due restrictions, rather than stunt it, and with it, fans’ enthusiasm for the industry.
Also, I just thought I’d add that I won’t be buying any of these series now, because I haven’t had the chance to see them.
Please comment, I’d love to hear what other people think of this.
That last thought about you haven’t seen some of those series is false since you watched Speed Grapher and Trinity Blood to their end.
Anyway back to the issue at hand, I seen many things throughout the years and basically, I think nothing will really happen and things will just go back to normal in a couple of months or so. Fansubbing will continue back to normal and companies will just deal with it. I do buy DVDs but I don’t want to buy every series I want to watch. I would be happy if there was a couple of channels devoted to subtitled anime so the rest of the world could enjoy anime just like the Japanese do.
Thing is, there are lots of series and films Fansubbers do which never (if ever) gets licensed so they have to be a (poor man’s) substitute - I’m still waiting for the Silent Mobius movies to get licensed on DVD.
I’ve got nothing against the fansubbing process as a whole, in fact I support it. There are so many series I never would have bought without “accidentally” catching a fansub. These have turned me on to many great series.
It’s the same for scanslations of manga. Scanslations and fansubs actually make a series popular with a western audience. I take something like Goong (a manhwa) as an example. Without scanslations alot of people would never have heard of the series, let alone recommend it in droves to be picked up. It’s nice when a company listens to what the fans want, it’s even better when they listen and deliver in a timely manner. I do get tired of some companies picking up series and never releasing them: Haou Airen by Mayu Shinjo being one. Viz seem to have no intention of ever releasing it, yet scanslators can’t complete it because of the licence. I want to buy the volumes, but will be crapped off if I can’t have access to at least a text translation. OK I’m waffling now…
Back to fansubs. Without them I never would have purchased some of my favourites. It’s a pity that Japanese animation companies just don’t release all their anime on DVD with english subtitles straight out. In fact, that’d be freaking awesome. Imagine it now peeps!
I’m not planning to be anywhere as brief as them…
I do support DVD and buy the series, but if I have to settle for crappy subtitles… (Yes, I do Japanese/English or Japanese/No Sub…)
… I MIGHT AS WELL FUCKING ENJOY ANIME-JUNKIES!
Really now… all they do is milk the cow for more cash… Screw them and all they stand for….
If we had DECENT Animerization on subtitled DVDs I’d say otherwise, but the ones I bought, I freezebeed to my dog.
Ooooh… >_> “Animerization?”
…Must be those new random words that just pop out my head… =D
Wait… I could say some subbs from “Naruto…” but isn’t that lower then A-J?
Phoenix512: I really hope you’re right. You’ve probably been following fansubs longer than I, but in my own observations Funimation has been getting more and more assertive about their license. However it hasn’t yet become a trend amongst companies, but it could. I hope you’re right.
Raychel: this is very true, and obviously these series are not at risk of being ceased by protective companies. Although the studio for Genshiken tried that, unsuccesfully.
Newt: That would be awesome. Even better would be if English releases had two versions, one that is released sooner by-passing the dubbing process, and one including the dub. That might not be economically viable, but it would make releases quicker and more affordable.
Korokun, I don’t quite get what you’re saying..
Look how the R1 Innocence:GITS release was boycotted for not having a dub. I dont think dub-less releases will happen anytime soon on a bigger scale. Well, not that I care much since I’m not in R1…
Kacpu, I remember one instance where the only-subbed version was more popular than the only-dub version and that was Card Captor Sakura. Also about the Innocence deal, the only reason it didn’t have a dub because it was classified as an art film. Art films do not allow themselves to be dub by companies like Geneon or Funi.
I always thought it wasnt dubbed because it wasnt licensed by an anime related (like Geneon or Funi) company - nothing to do with “art”. The movie did get an english dub for the UK and Australian release (Manga + Madman).
The “art movie do not allow themselves to be dubbed” comment is ridiculous btw. AFAIK as soon as a company has a license for a show, they can do whatever they want with it for their releases - cut it, reintepret it, dub it, sub it, not release it.
I think perhaps Phoenix meant to say that it was not distributed via usual anime distribution means, with the distributor treating the film as an ‘arthouse’ film, or something along those lines. And while it’s not a ‘rule’ that they can’t be dubbed, it essentially doesn’t happen. I see his point.
pardon my french but, BS. if theres no dub, its only cause a company doesnt want to spend money on it (GOOD FOR THEM) or doesnt have the money to spend (GOOD FOR THEM TOO). :P
If you have a look at the arthouse ‘genre’ you’ll find almost no titles have been dubbed. When a film is of the correct niche calibre to fall into this catergory, most companies would consider it needlessly expensive, and it would not preserve the original integrity of the film.
For films with enough critical recognition, dubbing would be considered as poor treatment.
Are we still alking about anime or did you move onto live-action movies?
I’m simply talking about the ‘art’ genre Phoenix initially alluded to, which is niether exclusively live-action, nor exlusively animated. His point was that it wasn’t conventionally released, because it was distributed by a company who placed it in that catergorry.
Wow, this really is off-topic ;)
Well… it started as a comment to your wishes of subs only dvds. :P
a LOT of people were angry about the dubless Innocence, and I do think Dreamworks didnt want to spend more money on the dub or Innocence in general - look at the cover they chose (bleh), look at the menus and extras included on the r1 dvd (bleh), and then take a look at the r2 japanese release (ahhh).
but sigh, what can we do.
It’s odd, but Washi I agree with you. If Japanese aznimation companies had english subtitles I’d be stoked. Western comps. caouls still licence a series to provide dubs, so fans who prefer dubs could still pick up a popular series etc, but honestly, I could care less. I’m one of those people who don’t watch dubs as I find in most cases the changes made to what’s actually being said sucks.
Take Card Captor Sakura. Holy shi-, when releasing the dub version did they think. Oh screw it let’s just change everything. Of course, this did make the show more kid-friendly, so I suppose it was a means to an end. Sailor Moon suffered the same terrible fate, even to the extent of changing male characters to females to bypass a little shounen-ai. Luckily they didn’t bother with the last series - they couldn’t do anything about those damn Sailor Stars having a sex change every time they transformed.
Wait, I’m completely off topic, weren’t we meant to be talking about Funimations military-esque operations to protect their licensed properties? In the case of SHS, Funimation could have contacted the group directly rather than have the domain frozen. I’m sure if they had done so SHS would have complied. But maybe they were trying to thrawt the group as a whole. *Thinks of Mangasync and the several companies that contacted them in a short period to stop dist. unlicensed works*
I revert back to my original statement. We, the fans, who cannot speak/read Japanese (or other languages), would still like access to works from these countries. If the original companies go ahead and release their stuff with english subtitles, or english versions, then I’d be buying them rather than DL them.
Crap I waffled again…
Well, dream on. ;)
A question since you guys are so enthusiastic about buying R2 dvds with subs. Do you like SaiKano? Did you buy the Another Love Song DVDs? They do have english subs.
Goddamn, I wish there was an EDIT feature for normal people not only admin. :P
About Funimation, they are not the first to take such actions, ADV was THE nazi company before them - now hey! Dont ADV anime still show up subbed? THEY DO! So, Im with Phoenix, it just happens, everythings going to get back to normal.
I am kinda surprised Funi went this far with SHS (if it all is in fact true), since they only sent a warning letter to mahou. Unless they also sent one to SHS, but SHS ignored it - i wouldnt be surprised. ;)
I think that the fansubbers need to try to legitamize themselves, or at least begin to head in that direction. This will be an unpopular suggestion (or at least one that is picked apart), but what if fansubbers began to approach japanese companies about fansubbing their shows for limited release? They could do the first, oh, five or six episodes, and if enough fan-reaction registered, the Japanese company would then be able to invest in localizing the product with a reasonable expectation of profits. They could even hire the fansubbing companies to provide relatively high-quality subtitles for low-cost (or no cost - NOEIN FOREVER!) webcasts.
Alternatively, what if anime started airing on american television on an easily-available channel at reasonable hours of the day? I for one don’t like having to stay up ’till two on sunday to watch Adult Swim’s anime block. The only alternative is techTV (which I don’t get) or the Anime on Demand channel (also not available to me!)
And basically, people who want to abolish dubs need to shut the hell up. There are plenty of excellent dubs. FMA’s is very good (except for gluttony *sob*), GitS’s dub was superior, in my opinion, to the original japanese-language track, and FLCL’s dub was very good. Hellsing only WORKS as a dub, rally, because hearing brits talk japanese is really really silly.
Was that even coherent? Not really!
hehe. did i say companies? I meant groups.
Newt, what I kind of meant was that R1 releases were faster if they didn’t make a dub (or if they still felt one was needed, perhaps a second release). It’s not going to happen anytime soon, but if it did it would mean getting the releases much faster. If companies really want to fight fansubs they can announce quick release dates.
R2’s with english subs would be alright, however I couldn’t really go to the hassle to import every time I wanted to buy a DVD. Also, R2 DVDs are often outrageously expensive (well, the same price, but with half the episodes).
And lelldorin, most of us don’t ‘hate’ dubs as such, and aren’t opposed to their inclusion, however, with exception, they are usually inferior to the Japanese dub, and use an altered script. I never watch dubs, so if companies released sooner without the need to record a dub, I would be very happy.
I loved the FLCL dub, but GITS SAC english dub made me cringe.
Lelldorin: You’re right FLCL’s dub is actually really good. I’ve actually watched it dubbed a couple of times without cringing - which is a good sign. And you raise a good idea about fansub groups working with companies… AH if ONLY! PS Damn Adult Swim starting at 1am and only plays a couple of anime series in NZ - DAMN
Washi: Yah, I got u, but you can’t stop me from waffling uncontrollably. And yeah, the major letdown with the R2 releases, for me at least, is the cost. For example I just recently purchased a DVD of a Japanese movie starring two err male musicians and the movie sucks but I bought it purely for eye candy. Anyway the Japanese release was three times the cost of the Hong Kong release… so guess which one I brought. Still, for some of those niche series that never make it to R1 release - HONEY & CLOVER - I’d go buy the JP version…. if it had english subtitles that is
And yeah, I’d so buy R1 releases without dubs - it would make no difference to me, and at least I’d get to see them quicker than say a year after they aired in Japan…
Fansubs
Good post on the value of fansubs as Funimation fights for its rights….
You gotta remember most anime in Japan DO air at late nights… Mai-Otome at 2 am, for example or ARIA at 1030 pm.
I have to admit that I LOVE fansubs, and whenever an anime series gets licensed I’ll get really, really disapointed.
I live in Malaysia, and here it’s hard to get original DVDs of anime that is distributed in the US, especially those with good subtitles. Once a favourite anime series of mine gets licensed I’ll have to watch a poor copy with rather BAD English subtitles. After all, most of the subtitles in anime that are distributed in Malaysia are mainly done by Chinese-speaking people who doesn’t give a damn on whether they do a good job or not. Which is why I have to depend heavily a lot on fansubs. Otherwise, how am I ever gonna understand what the characters are saying?!
I feel for you!
I guess it’s unfortunate that if something is fansubbed it will reach countries where it is licensed and legitimately distributed. This means, even if someone were to sub it for countries where it hasn’t been licensed, it would be acted upon.
A license in the US is kind of considered global. :(
I just wonder if the production companies understand the significance that their animation can have on the public if properly backed. Personally, I prefer the subbed videos to the dubbed ones mainly because the voices and language are just better, way better. Plus, it’s pretty cool to slowly pick up parts of the Japanese language as time goes by and more anime is watched.